"B: weapon clip on models to give a more realistic weapon impact" Sorry but i have no idea what you mean by weapon clip. I think you are using a weapon clip texture on the architecutre correct? Why is this necassary? How does it make it more realistic?
"C: Large clip brushes placed to stop the spectator seeing HOM or just placed so they can fly around without hitting roof beams etc." What is HOM?
QPsiren Guildhall Professor
Posts: 2382 Registered: Jan 2000
posted 04-08-2002 05:38 AMB: If you don't use weaponclip on models, your projectiles (rox, pg, whatever) will pass straight through the model. Models are nonsolid by default, so you have to make them "solid" with weaponclip.
C: HOM=Hall Of Mirrors, a historical term that started back in Doom editing days (IIRC) - it's what happens when the game renders a part of the map that doesn't have a texture associated with it. Many of the id skyboxes don't have bottom pictures, so you get HOM if you look "down" onto the skybox bottom.
EDIT: you also get HOM if you have any visible caulk textures in your map.
Hope that helps.
[This message has been edited by QPsiren : 04-08-2002.]
Hydrus The Afflicted
Posts: 763 Registered: Jul 2001
posted 04-08-2002 05:42 AMQuakin, anyone... ive just noticed this thread and tried to get the files from both mirrors but neither file exists! is there any place I can get the files??
Originally posted by QPsiren: [HOM]'s what happens when the game renders a part of the map that doesn't have a texture associated with it. Many of the id skyboxes don't have bottom pictures, so you get HOM if you look "down" onto the skybox bottom.
That's not quite true. HOM occurs when the engine doesn't render anything on a portion of the framebuffer, so what gets displayed is whatever was there the previous frame*. This is why you get 'trails' appearing if you rotate around next to a piece of HOM.
A missing texture would cause HOM in Doom, and holodeck in q3. The HOM on the bottom of cloud skies is simply because the bottom is not drawn at all.
* Not entirely true, but you don't need to know the details ;].
Originally posted by Hydrus: Quakin, anyone... ive just noticed this thread and tried to get the files from both mirrors but neither file exists! is there any place I can get the files??
I removed the map/bsp from my site to free up space but snick was good enough to put in a working mirror into the thread for me. That mirror does work. So does the original 1 for just the map. I just tested both of them. The zip with both is also on fileplanet under Q3 DM maps if you still cant get those 2 links to work.
posted 04-09-2002 12:41 AMI don't mean to be counterproductive here, but I ranted a bit about some of the things mentioned here tonight on my website. If you care, give it a read.
Aswell, that jump pad construction in the first post almost made me cry. Thats so wrong man. lol. Just relax and let the brushes flow. http://www.planetquake.com/scancode/
posted 04-09-2002 01:52 AMI'm not telling anyone they have to build like I do. I personaly dont like overdraw because for 1 thing it looks like crap on my gfx card (many maps look horrible in 16 bit for that reason) and for another even if you avoid the t-junction issues that can cause extra tris overdraw still hurts fps. I did some tests and as little as 5% on screen overdraw was giving lower fps than all the extra tris needed to remove it.
Mostly its it way it looks like shit I dont like though. It can also show in 32bit. BTW seems that you think nobody plays in 16bit. Well practicaly every player I know does. We cant all afford a GF3 or better just yet. I think as long as Q3 is being played there will be plenty of people playing in 16 bit still.
posted 04-09-2002 02:54 AMSorry Q, I didn't mean to make my little rant sound like it was totally against you. I was pretty much joking around. Guess I shouldn't have followed into it with that crack about the jp. ;]
The main reason I had to go off about things, is that alot of newbies to mapping come in and read all this stuff and they get confused and start building maps in complicated ways that they don't really understand. Like building a caulk hull. Thats sorta extremist, I prefer a simpler appraoch such as detailing all outdented geometry and caulking behind. If I where new to mapping and looking for advice, I wouldn't want to deal with using 4 brushes to make one beam.
Yeah, I realize people play in 16bit. It's just sorta a joke to me because in practice 32 bit is as fast as 16 bit in low resolutions and there are no cards on the market that are still only capable of 16bit color, that can run the games to begin with. I ran 32bit with my 16meg tnt2 without a performance hit at 640x480. So I'm just saying I wouldn't bother designing around it. Just look for bugs and call it a day. :]
Anyway, I obviously have a differing view on map construction then alot of people, I was tossing my views around with geit in irc earlier. That was sorta just fueling me up.
posted 04-09-2002 08:30 AMI use 16 bit because on my crap PC it gives me an extra 20-30 fps. Lots of other players do as well. All going for the magical 125. Would be nice if 32bit was as fast on my pc as 16 cos It would make a lot of maps look nicer
I know the way I do things is a bit hard to understand for new mappers. Going by the detail brush thread running ATM the whole caulk hull method should carry a health warning along the lines of 'Do not attempt this method unless you fully understand hints'. Having said that, for more advanced mappers it is a very good way to build.
I think my hate of overdraw comes from using a gf2. I see it from very close with that card. So on that jp you dislike if I had used a square brush I would have seen z-fighting from the top of the shaft & seen a visible effect from a lot closer than that.
Cant wait to map for D3. I somehow feel that 16bit zifighting wont be an issue! Only problem is finding the cash for a PC that will run the damn game
Originally posted by q: Cant wait to map for D3. I somehow feel that 16bit zifighting wont be an issue! Only problem is finding the cash for a PC that will run the damn game
I HEAR YOU BROTHER, I HEAR YOU
SPoG-w0rk Rookie
Posts: 42 Registered: Aug 2001
posted 05-26-2002 03:51 AMQuakin: interesting thread =). Your methods look almost identical to the ones I used for dmmq3dm3 and for the DC-Q3 maps. I've never written something like this though because I'm not sure it's the best way to teach people stuff =).
Since you've figured this stuff out for yourself, you know all of the reasoning behind the methods.. but someone looking at this thread may not realise the reasoning. If they find themselves in a situation that hasn't been explained in this thread, they won't know what to do =).
That's why I advocate making people figure it out themselves... it obviously worked for you =). Having said that, I do think this thread is useful because it makes people think.. and you're backing up the examples with the reasoning behind them too. I can guarantee you'll see people completely misinterpreting the methods =).. but that's their problem I suppose.
Originally posted by SPoG-w0rk: Quakin: interesting thread =).
Since you've figured this stuff out for yourself, you know all of the reasoning behind the methods.. but someone looking at this thread may not realise the reasoning. If they find themselves in a situation that hasn't been explained in this thread, they won't know what to do =).
Originally posted by Quakin': Nah dont do that. For 1 thing many of us who know what we are doing are moving on to other games and for anoter we were all hopeless at 1 time. I was a useless newb a year ago
Q
Don't give up bro! take this tutorial and master the possabilitys
rrroooaaarrr UnRegistered
posted 11-06-2002 05:27 AM I forgot to mention that q's idea of doing the floor plan first and play-testing it for scale, layout etc, is a really good one, I've now by and large adopted that approach myself.
- Bm11add9 -
LodeRunner The Afflicted
Posts: 708 Registered: Oct 2002
posted 11-06-2002 02:41 PMRegarding botclip filtering, you cant' filter botclip per se, but you can filter Clips in general. This will filter all botclip, playerclip, weaponclip, etc. It's useful when you have architecture that you need to change that's behind a clip of some sort or another.
Originally posted by Aramique: If I was a newbie looking at this topic now, I'd be like, "Woah...I'd never have thought it involves this much stuff..."
It definately got me going. I just read through the whole thread, after finding the link from www2.gvsu.edu/~bickelj/quakin via Map-center. Doing the floor first is an excellent idea. I'll try adopting it myself. It's also good to get encouragement to not stop mapping. Maybe I'll get good some day, too.
Q: Did you guys start out by creating tiny maps? Is that the best approach, or should one start out with the larger ones at once? Opinions wanted!
posted 06-03-2003 05:11 AMif you create smaller ones, you get a finished map faster, so you go from the first stage to the last quicker, if you continue creating a few small maps you get the hang of it faster ofcourse, if you start with larger maps you would end up with stuff that doesnt fit in it anymore, and you'll continiously be changing what you've mapping before as you know more and more while youre mapping.
but its up to you, just map, ask, and learn O.o
Vegard UnRegistered
posted 06-03-2003 07:30 AM i just started mapping on a map i created ages ago, almost deleted the hole thing as it was so bad
------------------ Do i preach to you when you'r lying stone in the gutter? NO! Now beat it!..
q True Nightmare
Posts: 3484 Registered: Feb 2001
posted 06-03-2003 07:35 AMMy 1st map was a little space map that took a couple of days. 'This is easy' I say to my self and launch into trying to make a whole line of monster size maps. Most of them were never finished and those that were are probably never played! Small maps are definetly more popular and if you make small ones you will get more regualr feedback because of the shorter buildtimes. Probably useful for a beginer.
posted 06-03-2003 07:51 AMmy first map wasnt a map, it was 1 single room with some weird height difference and some funky sprites in it... with duke3d that is O.o
AE-on UnRegistered
posted 06-03-2003 09:14 AMThat was my 3rd map for duke3d... Stairway made of sprites... the map can still be downloaded by the way.
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